Prompted by yesterday's release of the
S&P - Case/Shiller home price index, here is a progression of curves. All have been indexed so that 1/1/1987 = 100.
First, the index itself.
Data: S&P
Now, let's see how home prices have fared versus inflation (CPI).
Data: S&P, St. Louis Fed
OK, that was pretty interesting. Now, how about adding per capita disposable personal income? This should give us an idea about housing affordability.
Data: S&P, St. Louis Fed
Hmm... we obviously got a ways to go before balance is restored. And with markets always prone to excess, it's quite possible that prices will undershoot.
OK, let's now add one more curve, the crucial catalyst that made this "reaction" go as fast as it did: per capita household debt.
Data: S&P, St. Louis Fed
Any questions?
Well, I have one: judging from the above, is the credit crisis over?
Can you re-do for MEDIAN per capita disposable income? A more striking variance I'd think.
ReplyDeleteRe: median income
ReplyDeleteI could, but then I would also have to include median debt which is a more problematic series. It is obtained from a Fed survey done every few years, instead of regular GDP and banking data.
Regards,
H.
There are some talk that official CPI is not accurate. What if you use an older method of CPI computation to compare against housing price?
ReplyDeleteThe way CPI is calculated borders on outright fraud and I have often commented on that. But in this case the official CPI matters because it is used as a way to artificially keep wage and pension demands low.
ReplyDeleteIn that way disposable income, particularly earned income from salaries and wages, is kept lower than it should have been. Thus big increases in real estate prices and debt become much more onerous.
debt per capita will come down sharply....as a large part will be written off by banks...good news for the chart but not for the economy !
ReplyDeleteBest regards
Miju
Hellasious,
ReplyDeleteI have a question re: the total household debt. Does it include
public debt(i.e. government debt)or is it just private debt?
thanks in advance
Anon, I thin much of the 8 categories of non-revolving debt is not been written off at all from the viewpoint of the debtor. Even the bank write downs on problematic mortgages on Wall Street are not resulting in the disappearance of the liability as a consumer obligation; collection actions are still being pursued. Ditto with credit card delinquencies that are sent to that growing 3rd-party cottage industry of debt collectors. Those collection efforts impact consumer psychology which will impact how the consumer behaves towards housing, credit & debt.
ReplyDeleteHell, great chart. I think we’re on the verge of another great segmentation of our society, this one around indebtedness...or solvency levels per household, where the use of debt averages, rather than median debt levels per household, is obscuring the situation. More meaningful is to also pull out the millions of households that pay off their card balances every month, as well as households that don’t have mortgages (renters and mortgage-free homeowners). Soon both retailers & job markets will begin to react quite differently to these new segments while co-existing the over-indebted and those immobile due to unsalable homes.
Household debt only includes debt directly owed by individuals, i.e. it excludes government and corporate debt.
ReplyDeleteto:avl
ReplyDeleteYou raise a significant point: Just because banks write off loans doesn't mean a debtor's obligations go away.
The only way to permanently discharge debt (other than paying it off) is to have it cancelled via bankruptcy or have it forgiven by the lender via negotiation.
Given the recent severe tightening of the bankruptcy laws, I fear the credit crisis will be with us for a long time to come.
Okie Lawyer may have more insight into this, if he cares to comment.
Here is a very compelling interview with Richard Alford, a former economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
ReplyDeleteThe interview was conducted by Institutional Risk Analytics and is available to read on Naked Capitalism's website.
It speaks directly to the consumer debt, income and savings-rate issues, and examines recent and longstanding Fed policy in the context of globalization, asset bubbles and the gradual reduction of viable export industry of the U.S.
Here it is. Enjoy.
OuterBeltway
Hell, thanks 4 the reply. Like you, I'm a former engineer (IE). You have a good blog...have benefited from your thoughts on energy & oil. Ur maybe more optimistic than I about energy & credit fixes; I’m focusing more on the most likely outcomes, how society will just muddle thru, adjust & adapt, rather than 'fix' (e.g. bank write-offs vs. ensuing hassling of debtor). Global and even national ‘fixes’ are, like diamonds, rare products of unique ephemeral circumstances; graphite is the more common and likely outcome we face.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who has looked at energy consumption forecasts for China/India/Brazil & others and extrapolated using neither the excessive energy consumption patterns of the US nor our stupid-auto-centric land development patterns? Are there forecasts based on the smarter land-use development and mass-transit models presented by advanced European nations & Japan? Seems the issue of China/India energy consumption is exclusively over-played in media & blogdom as a geo-politico energy bugaboo (i.e., will China/India make ‘more diamonds’ & ‘less graphite’ when pursuing energy & transportation infrastructure?)
BTW, kudos to you for hoofing it on bike. Will u do it year-round?
"The Predator State" at Economist's View (May27) goes a long way to explain the demise of the US economy. It's not considered a failure by those who benefit from it.
ReplyDelete"
ReplyDelete"I am afraid that a big crisis like this great famine could happen again."
Greenie, in response to the above, you laughed."
What else can I say to David Lereah's 2005 prediction of permanently rising house prices due to shortage?
Don't you see that great famine in debt is contradictory to great famine for food? Just one year back, we were complaining about Americans being overweight due to excessive eating. Now you are seeing great famine. Have you asked yourself the question whether food supply fell so drastically in just one year?
"Greenie is a troll."
ReplyDeleteHaha - anyone who contradicts your biased opinion is a troll. How convenient.
FYI, my entire response (posted originally in yesterday's comment section):
ReplyDeleteAnders-
"Greenie, in response to the above, you laughed. If you have anything insightful to think why this is not happening, do share.
As far as I can see, there is nothing to laugh about."
Greenie is a troll. He enthusiastically feeds off the suffering of others. He has his own website, but he won't stay there.
Yoyomo:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the mention of the Predator State. There were a lot of good comments. I found this comment to be very thought-provoking.
I liked this comment. And this one.
H (and all):
ReplyDeleteThe only way to permanently discharge debt (other than paying it off) is to have it cancelled via bankruptcy or have it forgiven by the lender via negotiation.
Actually, forgiven debt can many times make a bad situation worse.
From Wikipedia:
Another common objection to debt settlement is that debtors whose debts are partially canceled outside the bankruptcy system will need to report the canceled portion of the debt as taxable income. (IRS Publication 908)
The Internal Revenue Service considers $600 or more of forgiven debt as taxable income. The forgiving creditor must provide the taxpayer with a 1099-C tax form. This form will list the amount of forgiven debt and interest in Box 2. Taxpayers with portions of personal loans forgiven may not subtract the interest reported in Box 3 from the amount of reportable income on this form.
However, the IRS does not require taxpayers to report forgiven debt if the tax payer was insolvent at the time the creditor forgave the debt. Being insolvent means that the amount of a debtor’s debts are greater than his/her assets (how much money and property the debtor owns). However, the IRS adds that “you cannot exclude any amount of canceled debt that is more than the amount by which you are insolvent.” ([4] IRS Publication 525)
For example, if a taxpayer is $10,000 in debt and owns $3,000 in assets, he/she cannot exclude more than $7,000 of forgiven debt from his/her income tax. Any forgiven debt over $7,000 that year must be reported as taxable income.
(As a side note, people should ask why forgiven corporate debt is not treated this way.)
Compare the stories I heard during an "Ask-A-Lawyer" program with my post discussing the "cognitive dissonance" of the current bankruptcy system in Debt and Taxes.
Greenie:
ReplyDeleteRe: Your "overeating" comment:
Have you ever considered the effect of stress on our collective weight problem?
I happen to think it has less to do with "overeating" than it has to do with our collective conditioning.
Hell,
ReplyDeleteWhy are the right axis numbers are missing on the charts? I mean what are the units u are using to measure household debt, income/capita,etc. The overall trends maybe right, but without units, the charts look less meaningfull.
"As a side note, people should ask why forgiven corporate debt is not treated this way."
ReplyDeleteI can see forgiven debt as a nice way to transfer properties from parents to children without paying estate taxes. Let's say I want to pass my Crawford ranch to my son. I will give him a loan of 5 million dollars with which he will buy my ranch. Then he will stop paying the debt, and I will forgive him so that he can keep the ranch.
Corporations are perpetual. They do not die from cancer. So, they do not need to transfer assets to their grandchildren after paying some death taxes.
"
ReplyDeleteHave you ever considered the effect of stress on our collective weight problem?"
BS research. I know many overweight people, and none of them seemed particularly stressed. Bored, maybe. Stressed - no.
Most often they were overweight, because they supersized on the drink during lunch.
Re: units on charts
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned right on top, these are index charts with 1/1/87=100. They are meant to compare rates of growth.
thanks Hell,
ReplyDeleteI missed the rate of growth part. you gotta watch out for those beginners.
Median household income would make the last graph more interesting home prices revert back to the mean which is the trendline of median household income.
ReplyDeleteYou have the ability to get psp games, no matter how old or new. They also make sure to give you the right software and detailed directions on how to download and transfer your games to PSP. I was really lucky I was able to find them.
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horny tickling -
hot indian babe -
housewife 1on1 -
interracial -
jena kay ricci -
jizz lickers -
jomg -
joon mali -
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latin adultery -
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lesbian stepsisters -
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little lupe -
little summer -
madison summers -
mandi rose fanelli -
maniac pass -
melody hart -
milf vixen -
milk my cock -
milton twins -
mommy loves cock -
moms i would like to fuck -
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my asian dreams -
my first sex teacher -
my friends hot mom -
my girlfriend squirts -
my naughty latin maid -
my panties are wet -
my sisters hot friend -
my white dicks -
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sera fox -
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sexy solo sluts -
she gapes -
shelly depalma -
simpson twins -
smoking alone -
so cal coeds -
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spank him hard -
spank my daughter -
sperm swap -
spunk mouth -
spunk pass -
strapon sorority -
strip club exposed -
suzanne winters -
swank mag -
swank pass -
sweet creampie -
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tasty tranny -
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tranny hunt -
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ann angel -
asian 1on1 -
ass hookers -
ass masterpiece -
ass traffic -
bi curiosity -
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booty cakes -
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cock a saurus -
college fuck fest -
creamy pie holes -
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cruise patrol -
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d cup -
diary of a milf -
diary of a nanny -
dildo drill -
dirty latina maids -
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ebony head -
emily sweet -
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extreme holly -
extreme sophia -
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footjob angels -
fresh black -
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fun tit -
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gay gravy -
gay porn access -
genesis magazine -
girl girl spank -
give me pink -
glory hole station -
gobble my goo -
got august -
handjob skills -
horny tickling -
hot indian babe -
housewife 1on1 -
interracial -
jena kay ricci -
jizz lickers -
jomg -
joon mali -
just 18 -
just sasha -
kandy valentine -
karups hometown amateurs -
karups private collection -
kayla banks -
kelly e -
kung fu whores -
latin adultery -
lesbian panty fetish -
lesbian stepsisters -
lesbian training -
little april -
little lupe -
little summer -
madison summers -
mandi rose fanelli -
maniac pass -
melody hart -
milf vixen -
milk my cock -
milton twins -
mommy loves cock -
moms i would like to fuck -
more gonzo -
my asian dreams -
my first sex teacher -
my friends hot mom -
my girlfriend squirts -
my naughty latin maid -
my panties are wet -
my sisters hot friend -
my white dicks -
naughty book worms -
naughty drive thru -
naughty office -
neighbor affair -
paul markham teens -
pink and perfect -
poke my mom -
porn access -
powered pussy -
pride access -
prime cups -
pro squirters -
rachel aziani -
rachels revenge -
real rookies -
rear end him -
rectal rooter -
rip my pantyhose -
seduced by a cougar -
sera fox -
sexy lesbian feet -
sexy solo sluts -
she gapes -
shelly depalma -
simpson twins -
smoking alone -
so cal coeds -
spank a bitch -
spank him hard -
spank my daughter -
sperm swap -
spunk mouth -
spunk pass -
strapon sorority -
strip club exposed -
suzanne winters -
swank mag -
swank pass -
sweet creampie -
tamed teens -
tasty tranny -
tawny roberts -
taylor gianni -
teen brazil -
teen topanga -
texas twins -
titty fuck auditions -
tranny hunt -
trixie teen -
velvet mag -
virtua girl -
xxx key -
xxx salsa -
xxx soul -
yank my crank -
young models -
24 inches of pain -
1000 orgasms -
all internal -
alyssa doll -
amber at home -
amiercan day dreams -
ann angel -
asian 1on1 -
ass hookers -
ass masterpiece -
ass traffic -
bi curiosity -
big cock crew -
bikini banger -
black bros white hoes -
blacks do whites -
book worm bitches -
booty cakes -
border bangers -
brave girls -
bubble gum bitches -
cam club -
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chloe 18 -
cock a saurus -
college fuck fest -
creamy pie holes -
crissy moran -
cruise patrol -
cum challenge -
dakota rae patrick -
d cup -
diary of a milf -
diary of a nanny -
dildo drill -
dirty latina maids -
dripping creampies -
eat some ass -
ebony head -
emily sweet -
euro fuck trip -
extreme alex -
extreme girl network -
extreme holly -
extreme sophia -
fast times at nau -
footjob angels -
fresh black -
fuck her right -
fun tit -
gag the babysitter -
gay gravy -
gay porn access -
genesis magazine -
girl girl spank -
give me pink -
glory hole station -
gobble my goo -
got august -
handjob skills -
horny tickling -
hot indian babe -
housewife 1on1 -
interracial -
jena kay ricci -
jizz lickers -
jomg -
joon mali -
just 18 -
just sasha -
kandy valentine -
karups hometown amateurs -
karups private collection -
kayla banks -
kelly e -
kung fu whores -
latin adultery -
lesbian panty fetish -
lesbian stepsisters -
lesbian training -
little april -
little lupe -
little summer -
madison summers -
mandi rose fanelli -
maniac pass -
melody hart -
milf vixen -
milk my cock -
milton twins -
mommy loves cock -
moms i would like to fuck -
more gonzo -
my asian dreams -
my first sex teacher -
my friends hot mom -
my girlfriend squirts -
my naughty latin maid -
my panties are wet -
my sisters hot friend -
my white dicks -
naughty book worms -
naughty drive thru -
naughty office -
neighbor affair -
paul markham teens -
pink and perfect -
poke my mom -
porn access -
powered pussy -
pride access -
prime cups -
pro squirters -
rachel aziani -
rachels revenge -
real rookies -
rear end him -
rectal rooter -
rip my pantyhose -
seduced by a cougar -
sera fox -
sexy lesbian feet -
sexy solo sluts -
she gapes -
shelly depalma -
simpson twins -
smoking alone -
so cal coeds -
spank a bitch -
spank him hard -
spank my daughter -
sperm swap -
spunk mouth -
spunk pass -
strapon sorority -
strip club exposed -